Praying for Your Marriage is Essential – II

John Fuller: This is John Fuller and please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programs on a podcast app or website.
Jody Bernt: So we might not be intentionally saying, "Okay, bow your head, we're going to pray." But as we're talking about ways we can grow in love and grow in support, we can reflect this covenant of love that God loved us first. We're only loving because He loved us. I think He can receive that as a prayer, and I think God can work in our marriages.
John Fuller: This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guest today is Jody Bernt describing ways that you can pray more frequently and more effectively in your marriage. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
Jim Daly: John, it's so great to have Jody back. We had a wonderful conversation last time. We discussed how praying the scriptures for your spouse is a vital element to your marriage. I think even within the Christian community, we don't value it as much as we need to. We touched on how to do that when personalities are different. Maybe the husband's a little uncomfortable, maybe the wife's a little uncomfortable, whatever it might be. She gave some great examples of how to work through that and still pray together. Today we're going to discuss how to pray over your finances, your service to one another—let me say that again to the husbands, your service to one another—and also praying through both the joys and the trials that come into life. It's going to be a great discussion.
John Fuller: It will be. And if you missed part one, stop by our website. You can listen to the download or find the link to the YouTube version, or get the Focus on the Family app and you can listen anytime. As we shared last time, Jody Bernt is a public speaker, a Bible teacher, and the author of the best-selling series of books *Praying the Scriptures*. Today we'll hear more about one of those books in the series. It's called *Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage*.
Jim Daly: Jody, welcome back.
Jody Bernt: Thank you so much for having me.
Jim Daly: It's good to have you. Okay, so we kind of said what we're going to do today, so let's get into it. One of the big responses we received here at Focus on the Family regarding marriage difficulty are the finances. Sometimes there's not enough, and we get that. Sometimes it's mismanagement. Somebody is medicating through buying a lot, whatever it might be. But let me just ask you, I think you had a friend that you mentioned in the book who saw her dream house and something went wrong.
Jody Bernt: They had moved to a new town and she was fine with moving. It was a job move for her husband. She got there and she was really excited when she found what she thought was their dream house. He looked at it and said, "We can't even consider that. That is too showy." It wasn't even a budget thing. He just thought they shouldn't live in that fancy of a house because that would look proud. She thought, "Wow, it's everything I ever dreamed of in a house." And that created real conflict for them. She found herself taking it to the Lord, not in a humble, sweet prayer, but in an angry prayer. God can handle those prayers, right? She was saying, "Why is he being such an ogre? Why is my husband not understanding how much this house means to me?" The two of them had to really work through that. But what was so neat in their marriage was that they really valued unity in their decision-making. She thought to herself, "If we're not united on the purchase of this house, I don't want to press it through. That's never going to be a good outcome."
Jim Daly: The difficulty there, though, is not letting that bitterness build up. Whatever it might be for other couples, it may not be a house that one of you really wanted to buy and the other didn't. It could be a car. It could be other things, like Christmas presents. Jean and I tend to spend a lot at Christmas and that's something we'll talk about. Typically, it's my pouty face that gives it away. I'm like, "Okay." But she loves to bless the kids and friends and things like that. It's a good thing.
Jody Bernt: And there's nothing wrong with that. You probably know I used to write books for Ron Blue. He was the Dave Ramsey before there was Dave Ramsey. Robbie thinks that's just the greatest joke from the Lord in the world because I don't know a whole lot about money management. But thanks to that writing, I learned stuff. One of the things I learned was that money's just money. It's a tool to be used for other things. So the question we need to ask ourselves in our marriages as we're considering how much we are spending on Christmas gifts, what kind of house we are living in, and what sort of vacations we take, is whether we are using our money as a tool the way God wants us to. Who are we ultimately serving? Are we serving ourselves? Are we serving other people? Are we serving the Lord? Because honestly, buying a new pair of sneakers can be a spiritual decision just like tithing because it's money. We all live in a world where there are limited resources to spend on unlimited needs and wants. So everything becomes a spending and a spiritual decision when we look at it that way.
Jim Daly: Some of these sneakers are ridiculous. Let me just say it that way. That is a little mortgage payment, isn't it? I'm not spending four hundred thousand dollars on sneakers.
Jody Bernt: You're right. Maybe that's not the best example.
Jim Daly: No kidding. The big thing is how can praying for our spouse help us with those financial decisions? I think that's a really good thing. Jean and I have been pretty good with that if there's a big thing. Maybe not as strong on the smaller things, ironically, now that I think about it. But speak to the power of prayer when it comes to financial decision-making.
Jody Bernt: Backing up a little bit from that, you do have different desires a lot of times. When Robbie and I were younger, we used an envelope system of what cash goes in where. We also said to one another—and this was a million years ago—that any decision under fifty dollars we didn't have to be in unity for. We could just get what we wanted on that. For anything bigger than that, we should talk about it. I'm sure today's couples might have a higher limit than that, but for us, that's what it was. When there was a time where there was tension where one of us thought we should buy something and the other didn't, prayer really was a way for us to be humble to say, "Not my will, not even his will, but Thy will, Lord. Bring us into unity and bring us into understanding." You never lose when you give time. Sometimes stepping back and praying is necessary. I'm always the one that thinks we're never going to find a deal as great as this and that we've got to act now. He says there will always be another deal, so let's step back and seek God. Let's get in unity with each other. That's been a real barometer for our decision-making.
Jim Daly: I'm laughing because that sounds just like me. You and I purchase the same way. We would be broke. Why wait when you can have a super-duper refrigerator right now? Thanks be to God for Jean and Robbie, anchors in decision-making. Let's move to another topic now. This is really where everybody's going to turn the radio or YouTube up, and the issue is submission. Ready for the organ music? The idea of submission is so touchy in our culture today. I guess the question is, how have you wrestled with yielding your desires to Robbie when there's a tiebreaker? I don't know if there's a deep theological way to manage that, but even saying that feels a little uncomfortable. If it's a 50-50 thing, who's got the call? Is it that simple?
Jody Bernt: For us, that is a lightning rod word. A lot of times people read that Ephesians 5 passage, which is the classic New Testament passage on husbands and wives and how we are to live, and people will start with verse 22 saying, "Wives, submit to your husbands." I think we need to back it way up to the beginning of that chapter. This has been the thing that has come in working on this book. The thing that has come so alive to me is the gift that we have when we walk in love, according to Ephesians 5:2, giving ourselves up for one another just like Christ gave himself up for us. That opens the door. And then Ephesians 5:16 says, "Make the most of every opportunity." In marriage, don't we have a hundred opportunities every day to submit to one another and to yield our rights? Whether it's me going to a movie I don't want to see because he really wants to see it, or him coming to an office party or a family function that he might not want to go to because I've asked him to come. We just have a hundred chances to make the most of every opportunity to submit to one another. That's verse 21, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." I think in all of these things, Paul tucks in Ephesians 5:18, "Be filled with the Spirit." During those times when we cannot do it and we can't give ourselves up for the other person because our will or our selfishness is too strong, being filled with the Spirit makes it possible. The Holy Spirit can work in us the things we don't even want to do. It is just the coolest thing to me. Paul writes that marriage is a profound mystery. It's a reflection of Christ's love for the church. As we do that and as we partner with the Lord, as we share in that fellowship of mutual submission, we get to see love grow and flourish. That creates a climate where marriages can thrive through this mutual surrender and submission, looking not to our own interests but also to the interests of others. And secular research has supported this. Researchers at the National Marriage Project out of UVA—which I love being a UVA alum—found that when we intentionally do things for our spouse, whether it's something small like bringing a cup of coffee in the morning or something larger, and we do that consistently over time, it creates an upward spiral of generosity and a climate in which love can flourish. Isn't that a cool thought? Because that's research that's not biblically based, yet it's biblically mandated. You don't have to be reading your Bible to realize what doing something for someone else over time can create for them the desire to bless you in return.
Jim Daly: I so appreciate the preface that you gave there, that if you look up in Ephesians, there's a lot more about what both of you have to do. But there are the ogres and you just go to a verse that fits your temperament. That's why I think it's such an inflammatory area because if it's done well, it's not a matchstick that's going to light gasoline on fire. That's where we've got to get to. We're not talking about a wife submitting to an emotionally or physically abusive husband. None of that. That is not what Paul's talking about here. Hopefully the church can get healthier and healthier in that area. In fact, one exercise that you and Robbie came up with was to do a little competition where you can out-serve each other. Being competitive, I like this idea. If you keep score, what's the score like? 1,680 to what?
Jody Bernt: If we had to point to one nugget that was so formative in our newlywed years, it was when we heard Dr. Tony Evans speak. He said that he and his wife had made this commitment to try to serve one another, and it became kind of a game and then escalated to a competition. Tony got frustrated because he said his wife was so much better and so much more creative at coming up with things that she could do for him that she was out-serving him, and he had to think of ways to catch up. Robbie and I really took that to heart. He would even say for him—which I am such a beneficiary of—that those acts of service and those choices created in him a cherishing. It moved from just being kind or serving to really cherishing me. As the recipient of that, you just can't even imagine what it feels like to know that your partner is cherishing you. That's what those little acts of service can lead to.
John Fuller: That's really good. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guest today is Jody Bernt. We're talking about how praying for your marriage is vital to the way you interact with each other. Jody has a terrific book that she's written. It's called *Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage*. Get a copy of that book; it's a fantastic resource full of stories and practical advice you're hearing right now. It'll really boost your relationship with your spouse. We're going to be bundling some prayer cards from Jody with the book. That'll give you some starting points in your conversation. That's exclusively available from Focus on the Family and you'll find it at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast or call 800-A-FAMILY for details.
Jim Daly: Let's move into suffering and grief and cover this heavier topic. It's important that we talk about it. When you first married Robbie, how did you view storms that would come into your life and how prayer was incorporated into that later?
Jody Bernt: When Robbie and I got married, we were standing at the altar and reciting those vows to love and to cherish till death do us part, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer—all these opposite sides of the same marriage coin. You think to yourself, "What about worse?" There's nothing worse. We're in love, we're all dressed up, the sun is shining, and our friends are here. Marriage is going to be awesome. And then life happens and you hit some hard things. A couple of chapters in the book really were hard to write. I interviewed people who, in one case, had a husband who started cheating on her during their honeymoon. It continued through their marriage and she felt like as a good Christian woman she needed to stick it out. The presence of the Lord walking with her and equipping her to forgive was amazing. They did wind up getting divorced, and he actually wound up getting sick and she was able to care for him in that time of sickness. Another couple went through a season where they lost a child. As you know, that can derail a marriage. Even the strongest marriages can begin to crumble under the pressure of that. There are storms that we don't see coming. I think the only way we get through that is with prayer and with inviting God's presence into the mix because there's not an easy answer. You can't say, "Why did he cheat?" or "Why did our child have to die?" or "Why did we have three years of separation and hatred?" We don't have easy answers for that. But over and over again as I interviewed people, the thing that got them through those storms was the comfort of God's presence. We see that over and over in scripture. Joseph getting thrown into the cistern and then tossed into prison, and over and over again you read in his story—the guy who had the worst betrayals—that God was with him. Sometimes when we're in those pits, what we need isn't the answer as much as we need to know He's in it with us.
Jim Daly: That's so true. The difficulty, and I think whenever we share on this program a story of the loss of a child, those tend to be the most difficult and heart-wrenching. Loss of a child is at the bottom of the pit of this life. So often it's an easy place to be angry at God and to not understand the answers because they're impossible to find in this life.
Jody Bernt: We can be angry at Him. That's the beauty. He can take our questions and He can take our anger. You read through the Psalms and you see all of those emotions expressed. I would encourage anybody who's in that hard place to open the Book of Psalms and just go through and be praying some of those.
Jim Daly: In that regard, let's talk about the exercise of praying. For some people, they feel it has to be a formal kind of thing. People that lean toward more liturgy in their church can find it kind of intimidating. They think, "I'm not a priest, I'm not a pastor, I'm not sure that I could do that."
Jody Bernt: Jim, I hear that all the time.
Jim Daly: And then the real thing is He reminds us that He's our Abba Father, He's our daddy, and that He wants us to talk to Him like you would your earthly father in a good way in a loving relationship.
Jody Bernt: He absolutely wants us to talk to Him. The Bible says He bends down to listen. He delights in hearing our prayers. He commands us to pray. I do talk to 70 or 80-year-old women who come up to me and say, "I've been in church my whole life, but nobody's ever taught me to pray." It has felt like what the minister does or what we read out of a book. They know the Lord's Prayer, but how do you go beyond that? I go back to John 15, with Jesus saying, "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish." Use the words that I've given you first in scripture and use them to shape your prayers. Talk to me. The other thing is people say, "Yeah, but you're just talking about somebody losing a child or somebody whose husband cheated. I'm just frustrated that my husband leaves his shirt on the floor. I don't want to pray about that. That's just petty and too trivial." I had one lady say to me, "I don't want to be clogging the lines when somebody with something really big is trying to get through to God." We can't look at God as though He has this limited bandwidth. He delights in the details of our lives. He's the God who knows the number of hairs on our head. So we can come to Him with anything and He tells us to. He loves that.
Jim Daly: I'm thinking of a simple definition of prayer which is simply to talk to God. Prayer is not complicated and it shouldn't be complicated because God wants to commune with us throughout the day, not just at certain times.
Jody Bernt: Just like we do with our own children, right? We love it when they talk to us.
Jim Daly: Great analogy. Before we move off of suffering and grief because that can come in so many ways, like the loss of a child or infidelity in marriage, what about an unbelieving spouse? Sometimes on the broadcast here, we're not including that person. We've had a couple of women join us on the broadcast who spoke about being married to unbelieving spouses. There can be grief with that. There's always hope, but especially in this area of praying together, it's a very different thing when you're married to an unbelieving spouse. Maybe they are a delightful person, but they just don't believe in Jesus.
Jody Bernt: I actually talked to a woman about that very thing for the book. It's a chapter called "Trusting God with Your Differences," regarding your faith differences because we will all have faith differences. If your spouse isn't a believer, it can move into the almost funny sometimes. I interviewed one gal who said, "I bought my husband a Bible with his monogram on it. I got him a devotional that had a golfer on the cover because he likes to golf. I left the email addresses for all the men in our church that I thought he should be friends with around." We wives do this. We want to create the greenhouse environment in which we think our husband's faith can flourish. Finally, this lady didn't drink, but her husband loved to have a bourbon at night. Everything she looked at in his faith made it seem like he was on the JV and she was the varsity, and she didn't like that. Finally, one day he looked at her and he said, "Why do you think your relationship with God is so much better than mine?" She said that really stopped her in her tracks because she thought to herself, it's kind of arrogant of me to assume that my way of worship and my way of praying is right and my husband's is wrong. In her case, he was a believer. He just wasn't a believer of her exact stripe and maybe not as spiritually mature. But whether your spouse is a believer and isn't praying the way you want or they're an unbeliever, over and over again we see in scripture verses like in Romans where it says that God's kindness leads us to repentance. So often we can look at our spouse and be saying, "Holy Spirit, convict him," or "I want to argue him into it." We're not going to win our spouse with conviction and argument. We're going to win with love and with kindness.
Jim Daly: It's so true. And the same application is there for parenting. So often if you're fearful and in your high control mode, you have the potential, especially with your teenagers, to push them in the very direction you don't want them to go. If you're going to argue him or her into something, well, try that with a 15-year-old. You're going to argue them into doing things?
Jody Bernt: Absolutely. We know that Proverbs 18, verse 21: "Words kill, words give life; they're poison or fruit, you choose." As we want to speak these life-giving words in our marriages, just like with a teenager or with a child, when you're saying, "Hey, I love the way you did this," that child blossoms. Whereas when you criticize, they shrink up. It's the same way with our marriages. We want to affirm the good things we see in our spouse.
Jim Daly: How does prayer again with your spouse, how does that affect your kids and how do you include your kids in prayer time? At a little age, it's pretty obvious, but as they get older, they may have less interest and they're on their own journey. How did you and Robbie work the kids into prayer time?
Jody Bernt: I'd love to say we had these fabulous family devotions where everyone came with their Bible and we sat for half an hour. No, it was more like we would hear the bus coming up the street and somebody would yell, "Bus!" and we'd gather at the front door and have a quick prayer amidst the normal chaos. Somebody's looking for their permission slip, their shoe, whatever. We would just take a moment there to just speak a prayer over them as they walked out the door. Maybe it might be, "Let your presence go with them today, Lord," or "Fill them with joy." It might be something as short as that. Then as they got older and could be a little more responsible, we might say, "Hey, come to the breakfast table. We're going to have five minutes to consider this passage or this devotional book." In terms of our own marriage, I think it really created for our children a sense of security and stability to see us prioritize prayer, even if it was just for a few minutes. That might mean that the kids' needs had to wait. I think there is something kind of magical in parenting when you put your kids on hold for a time so that you can focus on one another and have that spiritual intimacy with the Lord. We might worry that they're going to feel ignored or neglected. But science is showing that actually creates a stable and secure family environment because the kids feel secure saying, "Wow, mom and dad love each other." And not only that, but they may be fallible, but they have a higher power and authority that they can tap into. When they see us looking to the Lord for those answers, that creates a framework and a structure in which their own spiritual lives can flourish.
Jim Daly: That's really good. In that context, regarding leaving that lasting legacy, when you and Robbie look back now that your kids are older, what kind of legacy does praying with your spouse leave for your family?
Jody Bernt: God's word never comes back empty, as Isaiah 55 says. It always accomplishes the purposes for which it is sent. I think that there will be answers that we don't even see unfold as they continue to unfold over time. And another thing, Jim, we didn't really talk about, but I want our kids to know God is fun. I want them to know prayer is fun. We can put it in this box like it's our holy side. In the book, we start each chapter with a joke instead of with a prayer verse just because I want to lighten up. Yesterday you said prayer is work and marriage is work. And yeah, we all know we have to work at marriage. But it's also fun. I just want to let everyone know who's listening that this is a joy and a delight. It's meant to be that.
Jim Daly: I can't wait to really experience the humor God has because I think it's abounding.
John Fuller: And that's how we concluded our two-part conversation with Jody Bernt talking about her wonderful book *Praying the Scriptures for Your Marriage: Trusting God with Your Most Important Relationship*. It really is an outstanding resource to strengthen the relationship you have with your spouse and to help the two of you grow together in faith. When you make a monthly pledge of any amount to the ministry today, we'll say thank you by putting a copy of Jody's book into your hands.
Jim Daly: And John, let me explain how donations to Focus on the Family are impacting families. That's what matters most. Husbands and wives routinely reach out to us for help and then we'll get their feedback about how the Lord is working in their lives. Michael shared this: "Your ministry has been a blessing during several stormy and serious seasons in my marriage. It's like a cool drink during a hot humid day. The circumstances don't change, but my reaction changes for the better." And a woman named Judy said this: "Let me tell you, Focus on the Family has saved my marriage many times over. I'm so grateful to you all."
John Fuller: Well, what a privilege for us to be a part of God's work of transforming lives.
Jim Daly: Absolutely. And I'm so grateful for our friends who support us all year long with their generosity. Together we can save more marriages like Judy's and provide cool drinks of spiritual refreshment to couples like Michael and his wife. So make a monthly pledge today or send a one-time gift, whatever you can afford. Let's do ministry together and help more people.
John Fuller: Our number is 800-A-FAMILY or donate and get Jody's book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast. Also we have some prayer cards that Jody has provided. These are simple daily reminders about putting God first in our marriage and bringing everything to Him in prayer. You're going to find these encouraging and we've got those available online. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Is your marriage struggling? Communication breaking down, trust fading, conflict that never seems to resolve? Well, there's still hope. Hope Restored marriage intensives by Focus on the Family helps couples step away from daily life and focus fully on rebuilding their relationship. And right now through the marriage investment initiative, Hope Restored is investing $1,000 toward marriage intensives. Visit hoperestored.com/invest.